My explanation

本帖于 2025-02-18 14:45:44 时间, 由普通用户 aloevera 编辑

I was away for lunch and just came back. Thank you very much for putting together such an incredibly detailed explanation to me.  Appreciate it a lot!  Would you tell me why your breakeven for the ratio put spread is 275 instead of 290-(5+2.5)=282.5. I thought each of the two puts has to share the credit and the spread if assigned.

I guess the main reason I asked the topic question is how to obtain the stocks at a lower cost instead of pretecting any existing shares. That is why I only look at the breakeven point for the options, not the stocks. Either you protect the stocks or buying the stock at a lower cost when assigned the shares. You cannot have both. 

If hedging the stocks is in the thinking process, you are right. It protects the stock for 12.5, but in reality the premium to be paid on the long put is so much higher than the spread, you ended up actually not protecting as much as just selling the put with the premium.

For the real case I looked at today, the promium is almost doubling the spread for APP. For example for APP 465-480 case, 465 put premium is 20.8, 480 put premium is 27.7, you receive 13.9 credit. If stock drops to 465, the breakeven point of the option is 465-(15+13.9)=436.1 using your calculation (Howver I use 465-(15/2+13.9/2)=450.55 for each put to be assigned). But if you sell put option only, the breakeven point is 444.2 (480-20.8), which is lower than the cost of 450.55 to buy the stocks for the put ratio spread. My point is the premium paid is much more than the spread, which makes the trade not worthwhile.  If protecting the shares is in consideration, if the stock drops to 465, you still only have $21.95 (15+13.9/2) to hedge against the shares, but if you sell put options you have $27.7 to hedge against the shares.

Please do not hesitate to point out where I am wrong in the thinking. Thanks a lot!

所有跟帖: 

You calculation is not correct, I haven' looked APP -三心三意- 给 三心三意 发送悄悄话 (144 bytes) () 02/18/2025 postreply 14:37:48

Try to think it in a simple way which might help u -三心三意- 给 三心三意 发送悄悄话 (919 bytes) () 02/18/2025 postreply 14:43:37

Let me put it into a example -aloevera- 给 aloevera 发送悄悄话 (3992 bytes) () 02/18/2025 postreply 15:25:43

Sorry, you logic is very confused. Can't help further :) -三心三意- 给 三心三意 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/18/2025 postreply 15:30:22

Try last time (put the facts here so we are on the same page -aloevera- 给 aloevera 发送悄悄话 (675 bytes) () 02/18/2025 postreply 15:41:26

you are confused about "selling 2 puts" -三心三意- 给 三心三意 发送悄悄话 (560 bytes) () 02/18/2025 postreply 15:49:07

举个极端的例子,即使APP掉到100,480-465(1:1)的组合任然有$15的价值,所以这个465是永远不会被买进的 -三心三意- 给 三心三意 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/18/2025 postreply 16:00:58

这样的话,永远只能赚这$15 max profit. 我是在比较max profit. 也就是哪边hedge 的最大化呀 -aloevera- 给 aloevera 发送悄悄话 (91 bytes) () 02/18/2025 postreply 16:11:14

再给你举个极端的例子,你可以卖100 张465的Put contact,那岂不是max profit1更多? -三心三意- 给 三心三意 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/18/2025 postreply 16:14:54

因为put ratio spread 就是卖2张put呀,所以也用2 张put 在selling put only上。 -aloevera- 给 aloevera 发送悄悄话 (692 bytes) () 02/18/2025 postreply 16:36:57

I gave up :) -三心三意- 给 三心三意 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/18/2025 postreply 16:39:41

Sorry for taking up so much of your time! Feel bad。 -aloevera- 给 aloevera 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/18/2025 postreply 16:41:13

After dinner, I relooked at your posts. I think I've got it -aloevera- 给 aloevera 发送悄悄话 (532 bytes) () 02/18/2025 postreply 20:35:20

要系统的学呀,这样操作太危险 -三心三意- 给 三心三意 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/18/2025 postreply 16:15:54

唉,学艺不精见笑,目前先不做这个交易了。 -aloevera- 给 aloevera 发送悄悄话 (167 bytes) () 02/18/2025 postreply 16:39:39

I just looked at your APP -三心三意- 给 三心三意 发送悄悄话 (239 bytes) () 02/18/2025 postreply 15:04:25

The premium of 20.8 is for selling put at 465 not at 480. -aloevera- 给 aloevera 发送悄悄话 (44 bytes) () 02/18/2025 postreply 15:30:31

ok, in this case, breakeven is (465- 20.8 + 480) / 2 -三心三意- 给 三心三意 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/18/2025 postreply 15:33:33

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