Dirty Mathematics

来源: renqiulan 于 2023-05-20 21:47:41 [] [博客] [旧帖] [给我悄悄话] 阅读数 : (1868 bytes)

Dirty mathematics makes a mockery out of clean energy on which electric vehicles (EVs) depend.

China puts together a typical Tesla lithium-ion battery on the coal-fired power grid. That alone releases 13,500 kilograms of CO2 emissions equivalent to the carbon pollution released by a conventional gasoline-powered car traveling 33,000 miles. This is a carbon-intensive manufacturing process, whichever way you slice it.

Also, most EVs are out and about during the day, right? That means solar-generated electricity won't be available for recharging them when nightfall comes. If and only if you happen to live in a solar panel-covered desert, then you may be able to reserve enough recharging power after sunset. Now, don't tell me that you have already set up a wind turbine in your backyard.

More than likely, an EV dealer's sale pitch is meant to cover up the devil that is always in the details. Clean-and-green buyers beware.


Author: renqiulan

……

To research this subject, one might want to start with the following MIT report:https://meche.mit.edu/news-media/how-much-co2-emitted-manufacturing-batteries

所有跟帖： 

• Don't take offense if you're driving an EV. -renqiulan- ♂ 给 renqiulan 发送悄悄话 renqiulan 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 21:54:47

• None taken. -shuier- ♀ 给 shuier 发送悄悄话 shuier 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 22:06:43

• Whew! -renqiulan- ♂ 给 renqiulan 发送悄悄话 renqiulan 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 22:08:12

• You kept your promise to post a piece on this subject. -shuier- ♀ 给 shuier 发送悄悄话 shuier 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 22:00:48

• Could I afford not to? Hahaha! -renqiulan- ♂ 给 renqiulan 发送悄悄话 renqiulan 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 22:01:36

• You're right to point out the dirty manufacturing process. -shuier- ♀ 给 shuier 发送悄悄话 shuier 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 22:04:40

• To do otherwise is to be an ostrich. -renqiulan- ♂ 给 renqiulan 发送悄悄话 renqiulan 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 22:09:37

• I like that. Qiulan, you're so cute. -shuier- ♀ 给 shuier 发送悄悄话 shuier 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 22:11:44

• Are you not? -renqiulan- ♂ 给 renqiulan 发送悄悄话 renqiulan 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 22:12:43

• You guys are still up! -寒苇- ♀ 给 寒苇 发送悄悄话 寒苇 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 22:14:18

• Are you not? -shuier- ♀ 给 shuier 发送悄悄话 shuier 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 22:14:49

• It's Saturday night, isn't? -寒苇- ♀ 给 寒苇 发送悄悄话 寒苇 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 22:16:04

• Wei Wei must have a question for me. -renqiulan- ♂ 给 renqiulan 发送悄悄话 renqiulan 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 22:17:10

• You bet. Qiulan, are you against EVs? -寒苇- ♀ 给 寒苇 发送悄悄话 寒苇 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 22:19:25

• No, no and no! I'm a clean-and-green guy. -renqiulan- ♂ 给 renqiulan 发送悄悄话 renqiulan 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 22:20:36

• Qiulan is against dirty mathematics. -shuier- ♀ 给 shuier 发送悄悄话 shuier 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 22:24:13

• Yes, EV manufacturers have a little dirty secret. -renqiulan- ♂ 给 renqiulan 发送悄悄话 renqiulan 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 22:25:24

• And what's that? -寒苇- ♀ 给 寒苇 发送悄悄话 寒苇 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 22:26:08

• Green technology, as we know it, is not very green. -renqiulan- ♂ 给 renqiulan 发送悄悄话 renqiulan 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 22:27:43

• My problem with EVs is that they're sold on a false claim. -shuier- ♀ 给 shuier 发送悄悄话 shuier 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 22:30:46

• Which is? -寒苇- ♀ 给 寒苇 发送悄悄话 寒苇 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 22:31:14

• This is their false claim: EVs are clean products. -renqiulan- ♂ 给 renqiulan 发送悄悄话 renqiulan 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 22:34:24

• They just shifted the dirty manufacturing process to China. -shuier- ♀ 给 shuier 发送悄悄话 shuier 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 22:39:01

• +100 -lovecat08- ♀ 给 lovecat08 发送悄悄话 lovecat08 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 22:39:31

• They still are. -renqiulan- ♂ 给 renqiulan 发送悄悄话 renqiulan 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 22:39:36

• 三人夜话电动车。听后不止长知识，还觉得某国家可怜，替美国钜富承受污染环境的代价。 -LYJiang- ♂ 给 LYJiang 发送悄悄话 LYJiang 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 22:48:15

• 先生说的，确是事实。原因不消说，还是要依赖美国市场，还是要赚取美元。 -renqiulan- ♂ 给 renqiulan 发送悄悄话 renqiulan 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 22:52:10

• 俺要见周公去。各位晚安！ -LYJiang- ♂ 给 LYJiang 发送悄悄话 LYJiang 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 22:53:36

• 先生晚安！ -renqiulan- ♂ 给 renqiulan 发送悄悄话 renqiulan 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 22:54:31

• 好，宣布散会！ -renqiulan- ♂ 给 renqiulan 发送悄悄话 renqiulan 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 22:55:33

• 宁德市的电池供国内特斯拉，上海特斯拉现在出口欧亚，以后改--宁得市？获得世界电动汽车占有冠军：） -AP33912- ♂ 给 AP33912 发送悄悄话 AP33912 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/21/2023 postreply 05:26:00

• 他们紧随“中央”指示。 -renqiulan- ♂ 给 renqiulan 发送悄悄话 renqiulan 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/21/2023 postreply 06:03:14

• 终於有个中文出现。这儿是午夜英文論坛。香港午夜煲话粥！ -lovecat08- ♀ 给 lovecat08 发送悄悄话 lovecat08 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 22:54:38

• 我们散会了，猫姐才驾到。晚安！ -shuier- ♀ 给 shuier 发送悄悄话 shuier 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 22:57:08

• 秋兰，不练中文了，晚安！ -lovecat08- ♀ 给 lovecat08 发送悄悄话 lovecat08 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 22:59:24

• 猫姐不是夜猫子，晚安！ -renqiulan- ♂ 给 renqiulan 发送悄悄话 renqiulan 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 23:06:45

• 中国大池厂在东海边的宁德，坏气70%会顺东海漂（飘）到世界各地，最终抵美：） -AP33912- ♂ 给 AP33912 发送悄悄话 AP33912 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/21/2023 postreply 05:21:00

• 100%同意。美商走的是“法律缝隙”，PRC唯美汇是图。 -renqiulan- ♂ 给 renqiulan 发送悄悄话 renqiulan 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/21/2023 postreply 05:54:02

• 秋兰，你谈的事情比较宽泛。一个具体问题，即使用solar panel和EV，我有下面的information供参考 -- -唐宋韵- ♂ 给 唐宋韵 发送悄悄话 唐宋韵 的博客首页 (1292 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 23:21:42

• You're still up. The power you tap into may neither be... -renqiulan- ♂ 给 renqiulan 发送悄悄话 renqiulan 的博客首页 (571 bytes) () 05/20/2023 postreply 23:43:54

• I understand what you mean. My "math" is very simple and -唐宋韵- ♂ 给 唐宋韵 发送悄悄话 唐宋韵 的博客首页 (1051 bytes) () 05/21/2023 postreply 08:23:58

• My point: Doing math dishonestly is doing dirty math. Thanks -renqiulan- ♂ 给 renqiulan 发送悄悄话 renqiulan 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/21/2023 postreply 15:07:16

• Misguided and ill-informed -老键- ♂ 给 老键 发送悄悄话 老键 的博客首页 (485 bytes) () 05/21/2023 postreply 01:11:05

• Ford's EV sale pitch is what you're buying. Enjoy it. -renqiulan- ♂ 给 renqiulan 发送悄悄话 renqiulan 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/21/2023 postreply 05:29:45

• 福特嘛，卖花赞花香。消费者为自身利益、环境保护，应尽量客观地了解EV正反两方的论据，兼听则明。 -LYJiang- ♂ 给 LYJiang 发送悄悄话 LYJiang 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/21/2023 postreply 06:12:39

• 先生所说极是，“正反两方面”/ open-minded 非常重要。 -唐宋韵- ♂ 给 唐宋韵 发送悄悄话 唐宋韵 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/21/2023 postreply 08:43:20

• 学习了！这方面真不懂。你们有开电动车吗？ -花似鹿葱- ♀ 给 花似鹿葱 发送悄悄话 花似鹿葱 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/21/2023 postreply 05:11:20

• 我今年开了一个多月，冷天耗能特别大，电池还是关键。 -AP33912- ♂ 给 AP33912 发送悄悄话 AP33912 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/21/2023 postreply 05:28:00

• 对。谢谢AP! 未来或许属于EV, 目前电池等等的制造过程太污染环境了。也因为这样，更因为成本，所以委予PRC作原产地。 -renqiulan- ♂ 给 renqiulan 发送悄悄话 renqiulan 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/21/2023 postreply 05:49:16

• 葱姐，周日早安！曾经有过一部EV，捐赠了。待制造过程真正符合环保标准，充电站基建一如加油站后再考虑EV 。 -renqiulan- ♂ 给 renqiulan 发送悄悄话 renqiulan 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/21/2023 postreply 05:40:59

• green 就是大忽悠 -ahniu- ♂ 给 ahniu 发送悄悄话 ahniu 的博客首页 (80 bytes) () 05/21/2023 postreply 05:24:38

• 谢谢ahniu！抄下油管接链了。EV 不 EV, 最终由消费者决定，起码在较自由的世界是如此的。 -renqiulan- ♂ 给 renqiulan 发送悄悄话 renqiulan 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/21/2023 postreply 06:01:20

• 舞文弄墨的人里难得见到这么清醒头脑的，大赞 -颤音- ♂ 给 颤音 发送悄悄话 颤音 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/21/2023 postreply 13:41:11

• 谢谢颤音！大家都有各自的观点与角度，真理越辩越明，更希望越辩越文明。请颤音常来，发帖交流。再谢！ -renqiulan- ♂ 给 renqiulan 发送悄悄话 renqiulan 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 05/21/2023 postreply 15:02:44

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