在座的很多都是法官吗?

来源: feixue2011 2012-03-11 18:41:13 [] [旧帖] [给我悄悄话] 本文已被阅读: 次 (4898 bytes)
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否则怎么能根据一纸申诉,就言之凿凿地肯定伊敏的事件是种族歧视呢?即时你是法官,是不是在判决之前至少应该听听被告方的说法呢,同样一件事,被告方和告方从各自的角度描述出完全不同的版本还少吗?罗生门的故事,大家应该也听说过了吧?如果你happen是那位被控告老师的朋友,你是不是因为立场的关系又会换一种说法了呢?

 

下面普及一下 how prove racial discrimination case(美国人没那么傻,一切得按程序来), 看过后你再告诉我伊敏这件事如果真的控告种族歧视的话胜算有多少。

1
Decide exactly who is doing the discriminating, and what they are discriminating on the basis of. Is it an employer, a landlord, an industry, a society? Are they discriminating on the basis of race, religion, gender, class, or something else?

 
2
How is the discrimination manifesting? Are applicants being rejected outright, or are they being offered jobs with lower wages and fewer chances of promotion.

 
3
Based on the above, decide how you plan to proceed. The most important differences between the two methods described are how many people are doing the discriminating, and how easy it will be to collect the necessary data. The statistical method works best when many people each do a little bit of discrimination, but to be reliable it requires collecting a lot of data. The sting method requires little numerical data, but focuses the attention on a few specific individuals and might miss sporadic discrimination.

 


Statistical
 
1
Create a specific hypothesis describing as specifically as possible the nature of the discrimination. A good hypothesis might look like, "Hospitals in California offer lower wages to Hispanics than to equally qualified non-Hispanics."

 
2
Collect data that could provide evidence for or against such a claim of discrimination. You could look for such data from sources like the United States Census or the Bureau of Labor Statistics or you could conduct an independent survey to collect your own. For the example, you would need information on the wages of a random sample of Hispanic and non-Hispanic California hospital employees. Your data should include any other factors that might affect wages such as education and experience. Include other information about the employees that might affect wages even if you think it shouldn't. You don't want to accuse someone of discrimating against Hispanics when in reality they discriminate against jews. The fact that an ethical company would do neither is no excuse for academic sloppiness.

 
3
Import all your data into your favorite stastical analysis package. Run a multivariate least squares regression for wages against all the other variables collected.

 
4
For each variable, look at the coefficient and the p-value. The coefficient represents the magnitude of the discrimination and the p-value represents the likelihood of any discrimination at all. For example if the analysis of your data said that Hispanic had a coefficient of -.54 and a p-value of .02, it would mean that being Hispanic cost an employee $0.54/hr. and there was a 2% chance that the discrepency could be explained by random chance in the absense of racial discrimination (and therefore a 98% chance that it was due to being Hispanic.)

 
5
Publish your findings. Expect the accused to look for possible shortcomings in your methodology. Don't make their job easier by omitting obviously revelant variables or choosing a biased sample.

 


Sting Operation
 
1
Create a specific hypothesis describing the nature of the discrimination. For example, "The landlord of Evergreen Apartments doesn't like renting to African-Americans."

 
2
Send the individual that you suspect of racial discrimination applications of two people who are equals with respect to financial stability, but of different races. Most applications won't directly ask for race, but it's often possible to guess someone's race from their name. Use a stereotypical white name for one applicant and a stereotypical black name for another.

 
3
Wait for the responses. If both applicants are treated equally, there is no evidence of racism. If one gets invited to tour the unit and make a deposit while the other is told that there are no vacancies, there is a very good case that the applicant's perceived race was a factor.

 
4
The case can be strengthened by repeating this test several times. One case where the responses differ is suspicious but might be explained as a mistake, not necessarily racially motivated. Five cases where the "black" applicant fares better than the "white" one is almost indisputable evidence that race was taken into account.

 

所有跟帖: 

许多人把骂大街当作华人自强的方式。真不知该哭还是笑。 -B4NT- 给 B4NT 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 18:45:40

不是这样的吧,别先假定错了,然后猛反对 --Sound-- 给 -Sound- 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 18:49:17

原本这种为孩子强出头的事儿,在国内也很多,且不是啥好事儿。到这里,贴上一张种族歧视 -B4NT- 给 B4NT 发送悄悄话 (155 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 18:52:39

有道理。她也是正常渲泄,我们也是。被歧视后不反应不和人性。咱不装高雅。 -星星- 给 星星 发送悄悄话 星星 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 18:56:36

可惜歧视一说不成立。否则,我也支持她。 -B4NT- 给 B4NT 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:04:51

这绝对是被区分对待了,歧视的帽子是不好扣。 -星星- 给 星星 发送悄悄话 星星 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:10:11

所以,一来就扣歧视的帽子不是沟通。 -B4NT- 给 B4NT 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:12:24

歧视主要是指强势歧视弱势。 -星星- 给 星星 发送悄悄话 星星 的博客首页 (80 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:18:13

你无需解释啥叫歧视。那件事不是歧视,这是我的观点。 -B4NT- 给 B4NT 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:21:38

不平等对待就是歧视的一类,不牵扯利益,金钱损失,法官也不会管。 -星星- 给 星星 发送悄悄话 星星 的博客首页 (156 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:27:47

在孩子的集体活动中,家长去为自己的孩子强出头,放哪里都不对。这与人种肤色无关。 -B4NT- 给 B4NT 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:30:56

你太可笑了。 -星星- 给 星星 发送悄悄话 星星 的博客首页 (62 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:33:55

哪只是你妈妈眼里的区分对待。你清楚? -B4NT- 给 B4NT 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:36:50

孩子被人为的忽视的都哭了,不是她妈的外人也能看明白吧。 -星星- 给 星星 发送悄悄话 星星 的博客首页 (34 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:40:21

把孩子带回家吧。这种集体活动不适合她。 -B4NT- 给 B4NT 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:43:01

也许你说的好。人类社会本身就是弱肉强食。 -星星- 给 星星 发送悄悄话 星星 的博客首页 (22 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:48:06

您没有common sense。 -燕京十景- 给 燕京十景 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 20:29:53

孩子被人故意冷淡漠视,不反应的妈妈才有问题。 -星星- 给 星星 发送悄悄话 星星 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 18:58:24

所谓的故意等用词都是很主观的东西。正如我所说:妈妈眼里只有她娃,老师眼里是所有的娃。 -B4NT- 给 B4NT 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:01:40

我相信妈妈的直觉。 -星星- 给 星星 发送悄悄话 星星 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:03:49

还是相信自己的孩子,扔掉小板凳吧。 -B4NT- 给 B4NT 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:06:03

我可以控告你性别歧视吗?因为你只相信妈妈的说法 -feixue2011- 给 feixue2011 发送悄悄话 (31 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:08:50

你当然可以。每个人的观点我都尊重。 -星星- 给 星星 发送悄悄话 星星 的博客首页 (36 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:11:52

是啊,其实就是这么简单的道理,最后问题解决了挺好 --Sound-- 给 -Sound- 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:02:29

你真的相信问题解决了吗?还是你愿意相信? -feixue2011- 给 feixue2011 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:10:19

表达了问题,就起很大作用了,我不钻牛角尖,我也没那么弱地等待,都是需要双方积极努力的 --Sound-- 给 -Sound- 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:12:58

原告不是法官,不解释 -ctrls- 给 ctrls 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 18:48:22

文理不通,打回 -feixue2011- 给 feixue2011 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:10:56

很多国人缺乏理性,客观,公正。 有人还说那是美国方式, 我还真没见过那种美国人。 -edison11- 给 edison11 发送悄悄话 edison11 的博客首页 (22 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 18:49:17

什么事都要法官说了算!咱中国人就是守法好公民! (怨不得日本不承认南京大屠杀, -xiangqidashi- 给 xiangqidashi 发送悄悄话 (40 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 18:53:24

你不要瞎扯啥南京大屠杀。不要把无知当有趣儿。 -B4NT- 给 B4NT 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 18:55:55

谁在这左一个证据右一个证据的?你有什么资格要求证据?你以为你是法官啊? -xiangqidashi- 给 xiangqidashi 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:03:34

说你无知是因为南京大屠杀是庭审的结果。有法官律师陪审团和大量证据。 -B4NT- 给 B4NT 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:08:14

南京大屠杀庭审?哪个庭?中文的?日文的?英文的?不会又是中美联合公报似的糊涂帐 -xiangqidashi- 给 xiangqidashi 发送悄悄话 (19 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:16:06

此案的立案,搜证都有详细的历史纪录。 -B4NT- 给 B4NT 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:20:20

你这跟没说一样 -xiangqidashi- 给 xiangqidashi 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:25:31

你想和我辩论,找时间去时事。 -B4NT- 给 B4NT 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:32:31

没时间 -xiangqidashi- 给 xiangqidashi 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:43:05

有人天生就自轻自贱,甘当人下人。 -星星- 给 星星 发送悄悄话 星星 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 18:59:54

希望你在法庭上也能跟法官这么解释你控告的理由 -feixue2011- 给 feixue2011 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:12:06

歧视是100存在主流对少数族裔身上的,无时无刻不在发生,大家忙于生存而已,一般都忍。 -星星- 给 星星 发送悄悄话 星星 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:22:10

每个州都有human services, 他们专门听取群众意见,然后为群众打歧视官司,你知道吗? -羊炖山药- 给 羊炖山药 发送悄悄话 羊炖山药 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 18:54:47

法官可以不让原告以歧视来提告诉吗?裁定是不是歧视的是法官,还是陪审团? -Post123- 给 Post123 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 18:57:40

可以肯定的说白人抱团极了。华人就是会内讧。 -星星- 给 星星 发送悄悄话 星星 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:01:28

一提歧视,白人全站在一起了,剩下我们在这里打。 -mapesbel- 给 mapesbel 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:02:47

上庭我支持。谁反对我板砖侍候。 -B4NT- 给 B4NT 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:10:38

法官判错的时候也不少,否则没有申诉法庭和最高法庭了。人心自有个人判断。 -星星- 给 星星 发送悄悄话 星星 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:14:34

原来你用人心来代替法治。难怪你生活在美国感到压抑。 -B4NT- 给 B4NT 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:23:27

别老拿法压人,你根本不懂得尊重人的情感需求。 -星星- 给 星星 发送悄悄话 星星 的博客首页 (56 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:31:54

种族歧视这种东西是很subtle滴。 -mapesbel- 给 mapesbel 发送悄悄话 (223 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:22:11

94 -星星- 给 星星 发送悄悄话 星星 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:35:09

法官当然可以不让原告以歧视来提告诉,不满足必须的elements of cause of action,法官直接就dismiss -Francine- 给 Francine 发送悄悄话 Francine 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:03:29

法官可以根据程序DISMISS, 但是总不能说原告连把事情提出来都不能吧. -worriedmom1- 给 worriedmom1 发送悄悄话 worriedmom1 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:07:39

anybody can say anything. 原告当然可以把事情提出来. -Francine- 给 Francine 发送悄悄话 Francine 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:18:56

恐怕只有MM几个当法官,这种CASE才不满足必须的elements of cause of action。:))还可上诉了。 -post123- 给 post123 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:10:36

是根本没有cause of action。你觉得不对,那请你把cause of action的法律条文找出来。 -Francine- 给 Francine 发送悄悄话 Francine 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:16:11

如果真要告,就会取更多的证,把所有录像搞到,如果这种现象发现不止一次,你说呢? -post123- 给 post123 发送悄悄话 (44 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:23:14

同学啊,要告必须首先有cause of action,比如说你在餐馆吃饭,被poisoned, -Francine- 给 Francine 发送悄悄话 Francine 的博客首页 (260 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:33:13

那是你个人认为这不是歧视。我说了,还可上诉。 -post123- 给 post123 发送悄悄话 (43 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:41:39

我不跟你说了,你拒绝listen,如果你真对打官司有兴趣,请你self educate一下。 -Francine- 给 Francine 发送悄悄话 Francine 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:47:10

人家把所有材料放你眼前,你不看。还说,这些职能上庭后呈交。哪跟哪儿啊?把你绕过去的了:) -post123- 给 post123 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:53:58

不是法官,法律还是懂一点的。 -Francine- 给 Francine 发送悄悄话 Francine 的博客首页 (297 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:12:21

赞同 -星星- 给 星星 发送悄悄话 星星 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:50:24

有钱又有闲的时候就打官司,找法官~~ -不加分析- 给 不加分析 发送悄悄话 不加分析 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 03/11/2012 postreply 19:16:47

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