高IQ- GT的神话可以休矣

来源: mooseamoose 2011-02-24 16:15:50 [] [旧帖] [给我悄悄话] 本文已被阅读: 次 (3480 bytes)
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The myth of the gifted child: how high the IQ score should be

I recently read a very interesting article named The Junior Meritocracy in New York magazine (Feb 8, 2010). The article explained why the kindergarten admission tests required by many New York schools could be worthless. It also discussed IQ scores and proposed a better alternative screening method for future success.

Some interesting points and associated quotes are listed below; you can read the full article here.

  • IQ of 120 is high enough:

In Outliers, Malcolm Gladwell makes a similar point, noting that one’s IQ needn’t be super-high to succeed; it simply needs to be high enough. “Once someone has reached an IQ of somewhere around 120,” he writes, “having additional IQ points doesn’t seem to translate into any measurable real-world advantage.” In Genius Revisited, Rena Subotnik, director of the American Psychological Association’s Center for Gifted Education Policy, undertook a similar study, with colleagues, looking at Hunter elementary-school alumni all grown up. Their mean IQs were 157. “They were lovely people,” she says, “and they were generally happy, productive, and satisfied with their lives. But there really wasn’t any wow factor in terms of stellar achievement.”

  • The marshmallow test, a compelling test, demonstrated self-discipline leads to better academic performance:

In the sixties, a Stanford psychologist named Walter Mischel rounded up 653 young children and gave them a choice: They could eat one marshmallow at that very moment, or they could wait for an unspecified period of time and eat two. Most chose two, but in the end, only one third of the sample had the self-discipline to wait the fifteen or so minutes for them. Mischel then had the inspired idea to follow up on his young subjects, checking in with them as they were finishing high school. He discovered that the children who’d waited for that second marshmallow had scored, on average, 210 points higher on the SAT.

  • A interesting conclusion that self-discipline and the ability to tolerate delayed gratification, instead of IQ score or other intelligence test score should be a predictor of future success:

Maybe our schools ought to be screening children for self-discipline and the ability to tolerate delayed gratification, rather than intelligence and academic achievement.

So, if you want your kids to be successful in future, the best chance to achieve it is the kids should be mildly talented while having self-discipline and the ability to tolerate delayed gratification. Are your kids mildly talented? Probably yes.

所有跟帖: 

多少IQ就有多少活法,普通的人适合大部分的工作 -Christy_BJ- 给 Christy_BJ 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 16:19:08

文中提到的文章The Junior Meritocracy,读者的评论也很好 -mooseamoose- 给 mooseamoose 发送悄悄话 (96 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 16:20:54

有道理, 物极必反嘛! 什么东西都是够用就行了. -pigmom- 给 pigmom 发送悄悄话 (37 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 16:21:19

天生的也没办法,不是想不想的问题 -Christy_BJ- 给 Christy_BJ 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 16:27:33

也是 -pigmom- 给 pigmom 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 16:41:02

维基百科--Validity and social significance of IQ -mooseamoose- 给 mooseamoose 发送悄悄话 (21827 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 16:25:23

A bigger engine does NOT warrant a better car~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -20146- 给 20146 发送悄悄话 20146 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 16:26:34

8缸比4缸的跑快点 -post123- 给 post123 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 16:32:51

如果8缸上个又笨又重的卡车,4缸给小车,而且还turbo一下,说不定谁比谁快呢 -云槎- 给 云槎 发送悄悄话 云槎 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 16:52:53

卡车还能拉东西呢。 -post123- 给 post123 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 16:55:55

那是用途不同了,俺也觉得真HG/PG的去做研究搞发明不错 -云槎- 给 云槎 发送悄悄话 云槎 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 16:59:00

Marilyn vos Savant, Christopher M Langan,他们的IQ是不是很浪费啊? -ttmum- 给 ttmum 发送悄悄话 (5852 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 17:07:30

IQ更接近钢材的本质--比如含碳量柔韧性合金等等,能造出什么影响因素太多 -mooseamoose- 给 mooseamoose 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 16:36:02

若又是在限速公路. Corvette 拿罚单,出车祸的比例都高. -非否- 给 非否 发送悄悄话 非否 的博客首页 (52 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 21:35:32

我就想知道这gratification delay能否训练出来,有数据吗? -ttmum- 给 ttmum 发送悄悄话 (65 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 16:38:16

我觉得可以有意识教得出来,最重要不要无限制无条件迅速满足小孩的任何要求 -mooseamoose- 给 mooseamoose 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 17:46:02

这几天大家紧锣密鼓地讨论早慧,我今天特地调查了几个跟我关系不错、小学时一路GT上来的学生, -小睿儿- 给 小睿儿 发送悄悄话 (295 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 16:48:15

你问他们,如果小学没在GT里,中学能进HONOR的可能性是多少? -post123- 给 post123 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 16:53:27

只能说对进honor有帮助,也有不是GT的进honor的,也有后来一路下滑的。不是说小时候GT就一直保持在那里 -小睿儿- 给 小睿儿 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 16:55:57

你的说%。 -post123- 给 post123 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 16:57:00

取样范围太小,没法精确地百分比。这么说吧,这几个学生里,有现在学习也相当不错的,也有现在就不匝地的。 -小睿儿- 给 小睿儿 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 16:59:26

我们这里中学高中都有GT。 -post123- 给 post123 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 16:58:01

我很好奇,高中怎么个GT法?不和别人一起上课? -小睿儿- 给 小睿儿 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 17:00:20

小中高都分开上课的。 -post123- 给 post123 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 17:56:45

应该这样说吧,前面几名的基本都是GT或进GT. -OrderedPair- 给 OrderedPair 发送悄悄话 (29 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 17:12:49

是的,可以这么说。这些孩子都是聪明加勤奋的,是小学时GT中的一小部分,相当一部分当时的G -小睿儿- 给 小睿儿 发送悄悄话 (133 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 17:17:13

莫扎特好像还是训练满正规的。不是仅仅点拨一下。高斯就不清楚了。 -OrderedPair- 给 OrderedPair 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 17:20:51

高斯家很穷,妈妈是没有文化的女佣,他家认为学问没有用,并不鼓励他学习。 -小睿儿- 给 小睿儿 发送悄悄话 (82 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 17:26:30

搞GT教育就是为让那些孩子更加努力学习,不混日子。 -post123- 给 post123 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 17:59:28

再握手! -MMXIAO- 给 MMXIAO 发送悄悄话 MMXIAO 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 18:16:50

真正的GT小孩是能意识到自己需要读书,需要读好书,这和上什么班关系不大 -mooseamoose- 给 mooseamoose 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 18:38:54

好多GT孩子就是意识不到这个.所以要帮他们 -MMXIAO- 给 MMXIAO 发送悄悄话 MMXIAO 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 19:17:18

这和GT不GT有关系吗?IQ105的后天努力好胜心自控力强成就比IQ150的高 -mooseamoose- 给 mooseamoose 发送悄悄话 (92 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 19:40:18

你看了书就知道有没有关系了:)你说的IQ105成功,才真跟GT教育没关系 -MMXIAO- 给 MMXIAO 发送悄悄话 MMXIAO 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 20:00:20

不过是个测试罢了,你还真当是什么,IQ的SD变化下,你就得换本书研究了 -mooseamoose- 给 mooseamoose 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 20:03:30

IQ是NORMALIZED的曲线,一看贴就知道你不懂:) -MMXIAO- 给 MMXIAO 发送悄悄话 MMXIAO 的博客首页 (57 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 20:10:15

呵呵,你再NORMAL和哪个人群比啊,中国人平均105,白人100,黑西裔不说了 -mooseamoose- 给 mooseamoose 发送悄悄话 (107 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 20:31:13

问题时老读会了的书,对他们没有任何意义。 -post123- 给 post123 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 20:45:45

就爱听老师发言,小学基础弄弄,习惯养好了,脑子洗成要强上进的类型就行了:-) -包子脸- 给 包子脸 发送悄悄话 包子脸 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 17:30:10

包子妈很GT,:) -小睿儿- 给 小睿儿 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 17:31:39

Agreed. Many studies have indicated childhool precociousness -humming-bird- 给 humming-bird 发送悄悄话 (232 bytes) () 02/25/2011 postreply 10:13:08

NY 真的仅仅依IQ决定取舍? -derKerl- 给 derKerl 发送悄悄话 derKerl 的博客首页 (65 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 16:57:07

又一个不懂GT到低什么意思的. -MMXIAO- 给 MMXIAO 发送悄悄话 MMXIAO 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 17:10:40

你对这个概念有点走火入魔了,GT和中国的重点中学本质上有区别吗? -mooseamoose- 给 mooseamoose 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 17:51:08

这里各地的GT也不一样。不过,我想中国的重点中学里学习好的肯定是GT了:) -post123- 给 post123 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 18:02:49

区别大了.中国重点中学是HIGH PERFORMERS. 跟GT有交集,但不等同 -MMXIAO- 给 MMXIAO 发送悄悄话 MMXIAO 的博客首页 (97 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 18:15:45

IQ天生不需努力,那么请问哪家藤校哪家医学院根据IQ招生录取啊? -mooseamoose- 给 mooseamoose 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 18:30:37

我没听说有任何一家.你听说过吗? -MMXIAO- 给 MMXIAO 发送悄悄话 MMXIAO 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 18:50:22

那这个GT,IQ还有任何值得讨论研究的意义吗?小孩教育的终点线不是5年级吧 -mooseamoose- 给 mooseamoose 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 19:41:51

GT教育的终点也不是5年级.你又不懂了吧:)没有意义,老美不会立法搞. -MMXIAO- 给 MMXIAO 发送悄悄话 MMXIAO 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 19:57:52

中国为什么不搞呢?中国GT的人太少?老美搞教育是高手吗? -mooseamoose- 给 mooseamoose 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 20:04:54

中国懂GT的人太少:) -MMXIAO- 给 MMXIAO 发送悄悄话 MMXIAO 的博客首页 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 20:08:10

GT完全就是美其名曰。与天才,精英,高成就没什么关系。其实就是特殊思维但有学习能力的儿童。 -5839- 给 5839 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/25/2011 postreply 00:37:00

Can you give a few sentences on what is GT for dummies? I don't -humming-bird- 给 humming-bird 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/25/2011 postreply 11:18:46

看你怎样定义成功。普通人的成功不需要太高的智商。对科学发展有真正推动贡献的当然要极高的天分。 -valore- 给 valore 发送悄悄话 (0 bytes) () 02/24/2011 postreply 22:06:03

EQ is even more important than IQ, if you are doing business rat -gungho- 给 gungho 发送悄悄话 (49 bytes) () 02/25/2011 postreply 02:33:26

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