“THE ANDREW MARR SHOW” From BBC

 “THE ANDREW MARR SHOW”

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THE ANDREW MARR SHOWINTERVIEW:

HIS EXCELLENCY LIU XIAOMING CHINESE AMBASSADOR TO UK

OCTOBER 18 2015

ANDREW MARR:

The  scale  of  Chinese  investment  in  Britain  has  become  staggering:  nuclear  power stations, railways, housing, brands as well-known as Weetabix. This week, following

George Osborne’s trade visit to China when he did not publicly raise human rights issues   once,   security   experts   have   warned   that   Chinese   intelligence   is   getting uncomfortably close to British state secrets. Ahead of the state visit by the president,

I’m  joined  by  the  Chinese  Ambassador  to  the  UK,  Liu  Xiaoming.  Welcome ambassador. Very nice to have you here.

LIU XIAOMING:

Thank you.

ANDREW MARR:

First of all about Britain’s sort of relationship with China. Are we in essence now a begging bowl economy as far as the Chinese state is concerned, which doesn’t have the right to raise issues like human rights?

LIU XIAOMING:

First  of  all,  I  think  China  and  UK  are  partners.  We  call  it  comprehensive  strategic partners  because  our  two  countries  are  very  important  countries  with  a  global influence. We have so many areas for cooperation, for win-win.

When you talk about human rights, I think that is also an area we can talk about, but the important thing -how do you approach the human rights? When you talk about human rights, you don’t have to miss the big picture in China. I hope people should realise how much progress

China has made in the area of human rights.

ANDREW MARR:

So this is a changing picture and the president won’t be offended if it’s brought up,

for  instance,  at  the  banquet  by  the  Labour  leader  Jeremy  Corbyn  who  says  he  will bring it up?

LIU XIAOMING:

You think Labour

Party will raise this issue at a state banquet? I don’t think so. I think you know president is here for cooperation, for partnership. He is not here for debate about human rights. We all know that China, UK differ very much because we have a different history, different  culture.  We are in  different  stage  of development.  It’s natural we have differences even with regard to human rights. In China we care more about the rights for better life, for better job, for better housing, for ... You know I think the Chinese people enjoying their happy life. On the other side, I think Chinese people have never enjoyed ...

ANDREW MARR:

(over)

But there are a lot of dissidents who are in prison for expressing their views.

LIU XIAOMING:

(over)

I ... No I can’t say a lot of dissidents.  You know  all  the  criminals  are  trialed through a normal legal process.

ANDREW MARR:

But  there  are  people  who  express  criticism  of  the  Chinese  government  and  the  state, who we would not regard as criminals, who end up in prison in China.

LIU XIAOMING:

No  one  will  be  put  behind  a  bar  simply  because  they  are  criticising  the  government.

The  criminals  are  put  behind  bar because  they  have  a  criminal  record.  Either  they incite or engage in organisation to overthrow the legitimate government. Here in this country, I think you know once you’re involved in some activities, you know work against the interests of Britain ...

ANDREW MARR:

Yes.

LIU XIAOMING:

... and endanger the safety of the people, will be put behind the bar. Maybe we have some different opinions, but we can talk to each other.

ANDREW MARR:

Well  let  me  give  you  a  specific,  if  I  may  ambassador.  The  most  important  and exciting art exhibition we’ve had in London for a very, very long time  is  the  Ai Weiwei  exhibition  at  the  Royal  Academy.  Now  here  is  somebody  who  is  a  global

Chinese  figure,  I  think  a  Chinese  patriot –he’s  very,  very  proud  of  his  Chinese origins, his father was close to Chairman Mao and all the rest of it –and yet he ended up in prison for a while. Do you regard him as a dissident, as a dangerous figure, or as a patriotic important Chinese citizen?

LIU XIAOMING:

I don’t know how much you know about this so-called  artist.  I  was  interviewed  on some of ... one of your programme. I told your presenter he’s not my taste. There are so many talented Chinese artists, but yet ...

AN

DREW MARR:

(over)

There are many, yes.

LIU XIAOMING:

There are many, many much better than him. Why he is so famous?

 

ANDREW MARR:

Well ...

LIU XIAOMING:

Because he’s critical of Chinese government. The reason he was ... He never been put behind  bar. He  was  under  investigation  because  his  economic  crime.  He  was suspicious  of  fraud  accounting,  destroyed  accounting  documents.  What  about  the same artist?

Do you investigate him if he has this criminal record in UK?

ANDREW MARR:

Well the only thing I can say is we’ll disagree about this. I think he’s a great artist, I have to say, and it was a great exhibition. So we can disagree about that and move on.

Is the Chinese government offended by the Prince of Wales’ decision not to attend the banquet?

LIU XIAOMING:

He  will  be  with  the  president  on  several  occasions.  He  might  have  a  good  reason  if he’s not available. But I know Prince of Wales make a lot of efforts. You know he has to ... even have to change his original schedule in order to meet the president. I think he will meet the president at least for three occasions and he ...

ANDREW MARR:

(over)

Can I ask about ... I’m so sorry to interrupt you.  Can  I  ask  about  the  stories that British security and intelligence experts have warned our government; that China is getting very, very close to the heart of state security through these nuclear contracts

and  that  in  a  sense  they  are  opening  the  door  to things  that  most  governments, including the Chinese government, wouldn’t allow?

LIU XIAOMING:

I don’t think where they get this information. I can only tell you that Chinese are here for win-win, cooperation. We think it’s in the best interests of Britain and also in the interest of partnership between China, UK. I think UK need Chinese investment here

and  UK  people  want  to  have  a  better  life,  want  to  have  a  clean  age??  I  know  in  the

past  you  know  dozen  years,  you  have  to  you  know  get  rid  of  old  nuclear

power stations, but you have to find resources for the new supply.

ANDREW MARR:

We certainly need the money and we need the expertise, but China wouldn’t allow a foreign power to build her nuclear power station surely?

LIU XIAOMING:

I was put to me same question. I asked do you have the money first, do you have the technology,  do  you  have  expertise?  If  you  have  all  this,  we  certainly  would  want  to have  cooperation  with  you  like  the  French.  You  know  French  nuclear  services,  we have  some cooperation with France because they have technology and I look for ...

But  I  think  UK  is  strong  in  other  areas.  Why  you  always  focus  on  building  nuclear power in China?

ANDREW MARR:

Well we’re expecting a big contract to be signed next week. Do you think it will be?

LIU XIAOMING:

I  hope  so.  I  certainly  hope  because  this  is  a  very  important  project  between  our  two countries.

ANDREW MARR:

And finally, you said earlier on that you didn’t think that Jeremy Corbyn would raise human rights at a state banquet. I mean his people have been briefing that he will. If he does, what happens?

LIU XIAOMING:

First  of  all  I  think  the  state  banquet  is  for  Her  Majesty, it is  her  show.  You  know either  Jeremy  Corbyn  or  others  are  their  guests.  I  think  British  people  are  very gentleman, very smart, they know you know how to behave on occasion like this. But we are not ... we do not shy away from discussion about human rights. In fact I had a good meeting with Jeremy Corbyn last week and I do hope ...    

ANDREW MARR:

(over)

So

your  advice  would  be  not  to  do  this  in  public,  not  to  do  it  and  embarrass you.

LIU XIAOMING:

(over)

In a way I’m not interested in microphone diplomacy, just like we  are  not interested  in camera diplomacy.  We  are  more  interested  in  candid  discussion.  If  he has his concern, you know we can talk about it.

ANDREW MARR:

He  can  talk  to  us,  yes.  Ambassador,  thank  you  very  much  indeed  for  joining  us  and good luck with the state visit.

LIU XIAOMING:

It’s my pleasure.

INTERVIEW ENDS