这是社会活动家、政治评论员马赫（Bill Maher) 与 Podcast 主持人乔（Joe Rogan）採访对话的连接：
https://us.yahoo.com/entertainment/bill-maher-pushes-back-joe-164202093.html
在採访中，马赫称川普是＂既瘋狂又愚蠢的罪犯＂。如同一些读者的评论，
＂马赫在这里完全说到点上了。 无论如何，拜登都不是一位伟大的总统。 他太老了。 但川普是一位危险的候选人，也是一位非常危险的总统。 对于川普，坦率地说，他试图改变民主的核心价值。他想要的改变只会结束我们政府的民主形式。 他的政策是只让少数人受益，而不是真正满足每个美国人的需求。＂
节选一点对话，
At this point, they begin discussing Trump’s 91 criminal charges, including some that Rogan seemed unaware of — such as Trump being accused of secretly organizing a fake slate of electors in seven battleground states to falsely sign certificates saying he won the election (while simultaneously accusing Biden of stealing the election instead).
“He tried every possible way of stealing this election,” Maher pressed. “He tried to do it through the courts. He tried to do it through the legislators. He tried to do it through intimidating Mike Pence. He tried to do it through the Justice Department. They talked about seizing voting machines! They talked about using the Army! You can’t really believe this guy is not worse than Joe Biden. I agree — Joe Biden is not a great president. And the Hunter Biden stuff is a stinky scandal that stinks to the high heaven. But if you think that it compares to what Trump tried to do, then you just cannot tell unlike things apart.”
“Do you think he really believes they stole the election?” Rogan wondered. “Or do you think he’s bullshitting?”
“Who gives a fxx k? It doesn’t matter … all the people around him told him he lost. And one of his quotes they have on record was, ‘I don’t want people to know I lost this election.'”
“That’s kinda crazy,” Rogan admitted.
