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美国移民政策讨论3:与网友的对话 -- 大家一起来反对非法移民

(2016-09-01 18:37:38) 下一个

前两篇讨论了社会安全和税收福利(http://blog.wenxuecity.com/myblog/71485/all.html)。最后小结和探讨一下解决办法。

1。 非法移民对美国社会带来了安全,税收,福利全方位的负面冲击。蚕食了美国公民和合法移民的合法权益。

2。 非法移民虽然弥补了一些劳动市场的短缺,但却是一个非常荒谬的解决方案:

  (a) 对合法移民是极大的不公

  (b) 对非法移民是近乎奴役的残酷剥削和压榨,更不要说跨越美墨边境带来的死亡和犯罪(包括对偷渡妇女的犯罪)。这对一向标榜人权的美国是个极大的讽刺。无论共和党还是民主党的拥护者都应该强烈谴责和反对。这里最积极支持的是农场主和低薪低技能劳力雇主。

  (c) 另外,我想问大家一个问题:假设美国不与墨西哥接壤,美国的经济会因为劳动力短缺而崩溃吗?I don't think so! 通过合法移民途径应该可以更有针对性更有效地引进高质量的劳动力。可能产生的工资增长也是正常的,对社会是健康的(设想一下所有这些劳动力来自美国公民)。

解决办法:

川普访问墨西哥归来,刚刚重新阐述了他的移民政策(见网友http://bbs.wenxuecity.com/currentevent/857940.html?),个人感觉说的比较全面。再补充几点看法:

(e) 当前的美墨边境界墙并不想奥巴马宣称的修完了。放一幅界墙照片大家欢乐一下。

:)

xincage网友的建议和帮助。

 

 

 

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HCC 回复 悄悄话 Finally:

In U.S., 65% Favor Path to Citizenship for Illegal Immigrants

See http://www.gallup.com/poll/184577/favor-path-citizenship-illegal-immigrants.aspx


Shouldn't we respect the wish of the American people?


In fact, Mr. Trump said this:

In an interview with CNN’s Dana Bash earlier this year, Trump explained his plan this way:
I would get people out and then have an expedited way of getting them back into the country so they can be legal…. A lot of these people are helping us … and sometimes it’s jobs a citizen of the United States doesn’t want to do. I want to move ’em out, and we’re going to move ’em back in and let them be legal.

See http://www.newsweek.com/who-knew-trump-favors-amnesty-undocumented-immigrants-395512
HCC 回复 悄悄话 1。 >>>非法移民對美國社會帶來了安全,稅收,福利全方位的負麵衝擊。蠶食了美國公民和合法移民的合法權益。

I disagree. The reasons have been explained in the two other posts. Overall, the evidence is plenty -- illegal immigrants actually benefit the US economically.


>>>2。 非法移民... (a) 對合法移民是極大的不公

Please see:

“The belief that immigrants take jobs that can otherwise be filled by hard-working Americans has been disputed by an overwhelming number of economic research studies and data.

Removing the approximately 8 million unauthorized workers in the United States would not automatically create 8 million job openings for unemployed Americans, said Daniel Griswold, director of the Cato Institute's Center for Trade Policy Studies, in his 2011 testimony before the House Judiciary Sub-committee on Immigration Policy and Enforcement.

The reason, according to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, is two-fold. For one, removing millions of undocumented workers from the economy would also remove millions of entrepreneurs, consumers and taxpayers. The economy would actually lose jobs. Second, native-born workers and immigrant workers tend to possess different skills that often complement one another.

According to Griswold, immigrants, regardless of status, fill the growing gap between expanding low-skilled jobs and the shrinking pool of native-born Americans who are willing to take such jobs. By facilitating the growth of such sectors as retail, agriculture, landscaping, restaurants, and hotels, low-skilled immigrants have enabled those sectors to expand, attract investment, and create middle-class jobs in management, design and engineering, bookkeeping, marketing and other areas that employ U.S. citizens.

America's unions support the president's executive action. "For far too long, our broken immigration system has allowed employers to drive down wages and working conditions in our country," the AFL-CIO says on its website. "The brunt of the impact has been born by immigrant workers, who face the highest rates of wage theft, sexual harassment, and death and injury on the job."”

See http://money.cnn.com/2014/11/20/news/economy/immigration-myths/


>>> (b) 對非法移民是近乎奴役的殘酷剝削和壓榨,更不要說跨越美墨邊境帶來的死亡和犯罪(包括對偷渡婦女的犯罪)。這對一向標榜人權的美國是個極大的諷刺。無論共和黨還是民主黨的擁護者都應該強烈譴責和反對。這裏最積極支持的是農場主和低薪低技能勞力雇主。

Sounds like you are in favor of opening the border instead, so that they do not have to risk their lives crossing it.

Also, the question is also this: who will do their jobs, then? (please see below).


>>> (c) 另外,我想問大家一個問題:假設美國不與墨西哥接壤,美國的經濟會因為勞動力短缺而崩潰嗎?I don't think so!

You may want to know the following. Below is what happened in Georgia, Alabama, and Arizona when they passed tough immigration laws:

The Law Of Unintended Consequences: Georgia's Immigration Law Backfires
“To forgo a repeat of last year, when labor shortages triggered an estimated $140 million in agricultural losses, as crops rotted in the fields, officials in Georgia are now dispatching prisoners to the state’s farms to help harvest fruit and vegetables.
The labor shortages, which also have affected the hotel and restaurant industries, are a consequence of Georgia’s immigration enforcement law, HB 87, which was passed last year.”
"Now he and others are learning: Be careful what you wish for, because you may get more than you bargained for.”
http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/05/17/the-law-of-unintended-consequences-georgias-immigration-law-backfires/#557137a404a6


Illegal Immigrant Crackdown in Alabama Leads to Severe Agricultural Labor Shortage
"Following the passage of Alabama's strict immigration law, which has caused thousands of undocumented immigrants to flee the state due to fears of deportation, farmers are suffering from a labor shortage that they say won't be filled by unemployed American citizens.
Farmers in Alabama and other parts of the country often must rely on undocumented immigrants for labor because they say Americans aren't willing to commit themselves to strenuous, low-paying jobs that immigrants are willing to perform -- and well."

See http://www.ibtimes.com/illegal-immigrant-crackdown-alabama-leads-severe-agricultural-labor-shortage-325334


Arizona Is Paying a High Price for Cracking Down on Illegal Immigration

"Economists of opposing political views agree the state’s economy took a hit when large numbers of illegal immigrants left for Mexico and other border states, following a broad crackdown. But they also say the reduced competition for low-skilled jobs was a boon for some native-born construction and agricultural workers who got jobs or raises, and that the departures also saved the state money on education and health care. Whether those gains are worth the economic pain is the crux of the debate."

See http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/02/arizona-paying-high-price-cracking-down-illegal-immigration


>>>通過合法移民途徑應該可以更有針對性更有效地引進高質量的勞動力。可能產生的工資增長也是正常的,對社會是健康的(設想一下所有這些勞動力來自美國公民)。

There are 2 types of labor:
White collar, and
Blue collar

The US has a labor shortage for Blue Collar workers. That shortage is filled by undocumented migrants.

You cannot have PHDs and Masters, or college students fill their job. These are entirely different skill sets.

Alabama, Georgia, and Arizona showed us what would actually happen.

As WSJ stated:
Be careful what you wish for, because you may get more than you bargained for.
xincaige 回复 悄悄话 非常完整的系列!贴在临时群组里了。谢谢!能整理一下,把四篇文章发成一篇,必是佳作!
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