【也谈，上海人：“Shanghainese"】 By: 一语湖边
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也谈， “shanghainese" 我的汉字输入有点问题，原谅我用英语.
上海国际化了,应运而出的是”SHANGHAINESE “ 这个称谓的出现.
Basically, I did not see anything wrong with that. When we define a word is properly used or not, should we consider situations where the word or the term is used. If we were discussing it in its sense of language or not?
在上海时,我听到娇滴滴的上海女子在酒店里对几个东方面孔的男人介绍自己说,”I’M SHANGHAINESE”. 我真的有点儿迷惑. 在感请上, 我没法把’SHANGHAINESE’ 和上海人等同起来.我认为 最自然不过的一句话是上海人对自己的同胞说”我是上海人”，而对老外说 “I’m Chinese．”
Here is a question: first, in daily conversation, there are many nationalities or people with oriental faces: Japanese, Korean, or maybe Honkongese. suppose you re among them and try to make clear what is your local language or try to give more information of you back ground you would naturally added where you’re from. From this point there is nothing wrong with that.
但是鲜有上海人直接了当地对自己的同胞说”我是上海人”, 既使他们说完后也要补充一句, 其实他们父母不是上海本地人. 可是,当无比可爱的上海美眉躲在英文里娇媚而自豪地说I’M SHANGHAINESE”的时候,却好像没有一点需要说明的解释，反而让人觉得是上海人要飞出CHINESE 的圈子, 而直接飞向”SHANGHAINESE”,目标是和 TAIWANESE, HONKONESE, JAPENESE看齐, 而把其他的Chinese 甩在身后. 我不能不承认上海人的优越, 这和所有北京人,NEWYORKER, CHICAGOREN 的优越感是等同的,大城市有着得天独厚的地理环境, 令人咋舌的商业中心, 前卫时尚的流行精品,巨大而风格独特的博物馆,物价昂贵的名街名宅, 更有要人, 巨星, 富商云集, 为城市锦上添花.
Same as Hongkongese, Cantonese, Taiwanese, it comes with the languages exposure to the outside world. Since more and more Westerners realize China is such huge country, there are cases when people in real conversation to give bit more specific as to let the listeners to know where she or he is from instead of just saying "Chinese". It goes along with more exposure of Chinese people and China as a whole. I always say I am “shanghainese” to make clear I am not Cantonese as my westerners friends thought, and to give my languages preference is not Cantonese. Then added I am “Chinese-Canadian” to tell I am Chinese as my nationality.
但是, 一个地域再优秀, 也不可能摆脱它的民族和隶属国, AFTER ALL, A SHANGHAINESE IS STILL A CHINESE, 我猜是不是有一天, 当一个NEWYORKER到中国旅行, 对老中们说“我是 纽约人”, 而我们又可以分辩出他的纽约口音时, 那么SHANGHAINESE 才可以百般骄傲于这个词语的发明.
Secondly, I have heard of people in Canada or American saying they are "Torontonian" or 'New Yorker' too, to people when they know very little about the area or find hard to tell the difference from their accents. It is quite natural to be a bit specific. It does not mean they are saying “Torontonian” is same as Canadian. So from some people, "Chinese" as "Canadian" or "American" is more or less mean their nationalities. Surely when they are mixed only with other Westerners they would name the country where they belong to or their true nationalities are.
其实, SHANGHAINESE 这个词本身听起来真的酷极了.只是用起来, 却有那么一点不伦不类. 因为, 上海人不用对老中说, “我是SHANGHAINESE,” , 而对老外应该 说”I’M CHINESE”. 我想巴,想巴, 这个词最大的用处,是在和殖民地的香港人,或是以英语为母语的东南亚同胞交流中可以说. “I’M SHANGHAINESE”, 既能体现上海和他们相近的西化程度, 又可不露痕迹地掩饰说”我是上海人”的一点尴尬, SHANGHAINESE 显然已经厌倦了作为”上海人”，而TRY TO GET OUT OF IT. 于是SHANGHAINESE 便在自以为是的在洋涇浜小资们中间流行了起来.
So, allow me, to quote: "上海人不用对老中说, “我是SHANGHAINESE,” , 而对老外应该 说”I’M CHINESE”. Let’s figure out this way: when you meet some westerners, amidst some 3-4 Chinese, they know you are all 'Chinese" for sure. Then it is better, to say 'Shanghaiese" or "hongkongese"or "Taiwanese" rather than only "Chinese", which gives more sense. Unless there is no such word at all, or the city is too small to be called "I am shu_zhou_ese" as an example? However, please be noted the word as “Shanghainese” might be still not accepted by all the dictionaries.
One more thing: there is big sub-cultural difference among locations and cities in China, owning to immobility of citizens in Chinese history and the lacking of public transportations. But now, I think the most important for Chinese to see beyond our born cities and where we come from. Unless you had personal problems with the people form the locations.
约翰雷客霄 Burlington, Ca.
Post for personal interest, and revised on Tuesday, March 25, 2008
Contact: lakeshore_viewer_2008@yahoo.cn (China) john.canjourno.2008@gmail.com ( International )
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也谈， “shanghainese" 我的汉字输入有点问题，原谅我用英语.
上海国际化了,应运而出的是”SHANGHAINESE “ 这个称谓的出现.
Basically, I did not see anything wrong with that. When we define a word is properly used or not, should we consider situations where the word or the term is used. If we were discussing it in its sense of language or not?
在上海时,我听到娇滴滴的上海女子在酒店里对几个东方面孔的男人介绍自己说,”I’M SHANGHAINESE”. 我真的有点儿迷惑. 在感请上, 我没法把’SHANGHAINESE’ 和上海人等同起来.我认为 最自然不过的一句话是上海人对自己的同胞说”我是上海人”，而对老外说 “I’m Chinese．”
Here is a question: first, in daily conversation, there are many nationalities or people with oriental faces: Japanese, Korean, or maybe Honkongese. suppose you re among them and try to make clear what is your local language or try to give more information of you back ground you would naturally added where you’re from. From this point there is nothing wrong with that.
但是鲜有上海人直接了当地对自己的同胞说”我是上海人”, 既使他们说完后也要补充一句, 其实他们父母不是上海本地人. 可是,当无比可爱的上海美眉躲在英文里娇媚而自豪地说I’M SHANGHAINESE”的时候,却好像没有一点需要说明的解释，反而让人觉得是上海人要飞出CHINESE 的圈子, 而直接飞向”SHANGHAINESE”,目标是和 TAIWANESE, HONKONESE, JAPENESE看齐, 而把其他的Chinese 甩在身后. 我不能不承认上海人的优越, 这和所有北京人,NEWYORKER, CHICAGOREN 的优越感是等同的,大城市有着得天独厚的地理环境, 令人咋舌的商业中心, 前卫时尚的流行精品,巨大而风格独特的博物馆,物价昂贵的名街名宅, 更有要人, 巨星, 富商云集, 为城市锦上添花.
Same as Hongkongese, Cantonese, Taiwanese, it comes with the languages exposure to the outside world. Since more and more Westerners realize China is such huge country, there are cases when people in real conversation to give bit more specific as to let the listeners to know where she or he is from instead of just saying "Chinese". It goes along with more exposure of Chinese people and China as a whole. I always say I am “shanghainese” to make clear I am not Cantonese as my westerners friends thought, and to give my languages preference is not Cantonese. Then added I am “Chinese-Canadian” to tell I am Chinese as my nationality.
但是, 一个地域再优秀, 也不可能摆脱它的民族和隶属国, AFTER ALL, A SHANGHAINESE IS STILL A CHINESE, 我猜是不是有一天, 当一个NEWYORKER到中国旅行, 对老中们说“我是 纽约人”, 而我们又可以分辩出他的纽约口音时, 那么SHANGHAINESE 才可以百般骄傲于这个词语的发明.
Secondly, I have heard of people in Canada or American saying they are "Torontonian" or 'New Yorker' too, to people when they know very little about the area or find hard to tell the difference from their accents. It is quite natural to be a bit specific. It does not mean they are saying “Torontonian” is same as Canadian. So from some people, "Chinese" as "Canadian" or "American" is more or less mean their nationalities. Surely when they are mixed only with other Westerners they would name the country where they belong to or their true nationalities are.
其实, SHANGHAINESE 这个词本身听起来真的酷极了.只是用起来, 却有那么一点不伦不类. 因为, 上海人不用对老中说, “我是SHANGHAINESE,” , 而对老外应该 说”I’M CHINESE”. 我想巴,想巴, 这个词最大的用处,是在和殖民地的香港人,或是以英语为母语的东南亚同胞交流中可以说. “I’M SHANGHAINESE”, 既能体现上海和他们相近的西化程度, 又可不露痕迹地掩饰说”我是上海人”的一点尴尬, SHANGHAINESE 显然已经厌倦了作为”上海人”，而TRY TO GET OUT OF IT. 于是SHANGHAINESE 便在自以为是的在洋涇浜小资们中间流行了起来.
So, allow me, to quote: "上海人不用对老中说, “我是SHANGHAINESE,” , 而对老外应该 说”I’M CHINESE”. Let’s figure out this way: when you meet some westerners, amidst some 3-4 Chinese, they know you are all 'Chinese" for sure. Then it is better, to say 'Shanghaiese" or "hongkongese"or "Taiwanese" rather than only "Chinese", which gives more sense. Unless there is no such word at all, or the city is too small to be called "I am shu_zhou_ese" as an example? However, please be noted the word as “Shanghainese” might be still not accepted by all the dictionaries.
One more thing: there is big sub-cultural difference among locations and cities in China, owning to immobility of citizens in Chinese history and the lacking of public transportations. But now, I think the most important for Chinese to see beyond our born cities and where we come from. Unless you had personal problems with the people form the locations.
约翰雷客霄 Burlington, Ca.
Post for personal interest, and revised on Tuesday, March 25, 2008
Contact: lakeshore_viewer_2008@yahoo.cn (China) john.canjourno.2008@gmail.com ( International )
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